Where in Europe the tourists arenít

Old Mar 23rd, 2023, 01:21 PM
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Where in Europe the tourists arenít

Planning three months to Europe to select a location to purchase a house and land.

Every corner of Europe seems to offer something beautiful and charming.

But where can a person go, and live, that offers most of the things that tourists crave- good weather, nice people, great food, and good internet, relatively affordable (to most who arenít billionaires. Sorry Monaco), and a bit of interesting history to dig into- but without throngs of tourists? Does it exist in Europe?
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Old Mar 23rd, 2023, 01:27 PM
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Albania is becoming more popular.
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Old Mar 23rd, 2023, 01:45 PM
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What is your personal definition of good weather?
What do you define as great food?
What precisely is “relatively affordable” to you?
There seem to be lots of small towns in rural Spain, Portugal, rural Italy, where something might appeal to you, but you might find more advice on websites dedicated to people desiring to relocate rather than travel.
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Old Mar 23rd, 2023, 02:55 PM
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You could go "off the beaten" path to places like Romania, Moldova, Serbia, Bulgaria, and Albania (as was previously suggested). In my experience in this region, there are tourists, but hardly "over run." The weather is subjective, though, but these countries tend to have similar weather than other European locations.

If for vacation, when you go also determines how many other tourists might be there. October (later)/November is still pleasant (weather wise) for many places that are typically more "popular" for tourists but there are not as many tourists traveling such as Paris and France, Spain, Italy. They are never tourist "free" but some months are quieter than others.

But really, if you're looking to relocate long term, your best bet IS to see that location throughout each season, including during popular summer months. If you cannot deal with it over the course of that season, you'd hate it if you relocate there long term. Often, it is suggested to return to a particular location multiple times for 2+ months throughout different seasons before buying and relocating.

Last edited by Travel_Nerd; Mar 23rd, 2023 at 03:00 PM.
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Old Mar 23rd, 2023, 03:35 PM
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This might be of interest to the OP

https://1eurohouses.com/
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Old Mar 23rd, 2023, 03:42 PM
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I live in Le Marche, in central Italy. There are many charming hilltowns, with lovely scenery, and some of Italy's best food. The weather is pretty good, and the internet ranges from spotty to good, depending on location. A fair mu,mber of Dutch and German people have settled here, but there are not hordes of tourists. Most of these little towns would like to have more tourists.

I've lived here for 25 years and hope to spend the rest of my days here. However, I've seen many other starry-eyed newcomers turn back to their native lands. One family wanted to cultivate a vineyard and produce wine, but found it required much more intensive work (and investment) than they anticipated. Others never really learned the language and didn't become integrated into the community. (This is especially the case for couples and families who continue to speak their first language at home. I married an Italian, whose English was rudimentary, so I learned Italian pretty quickly.) One man told me he hadn't realised how cold it was in the winter. Do make sure to visit your intended new home in the less-pleasant months! Many returned because of new grandchildren or aging parents. For most, though, it was the lack of the kinds of services they were accustomed to.

In Italy, Tuscany and other famous places have hordes of tourists. Many of the coastal areas have lots of tourists in the summer. All of the "art cities" (as they're called here) have hordes of tourists most of the year. But there are many, many towns like mine. We can reach the mountains or the sea in half an hour. Houses are fairly inexpensive, but may require a major investment to restructure them.
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Old Mar 23rd, 2023, 03:44 PM
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Unless you have dual citizenship or are entitled to a second citizenship, you may find it difficult to settle in a new country.
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Old Mar 23rd, 2023, 04:43 PM
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Originally Posted by bvlenci View Post
Unless you have dual citizenship or are entitled to a second citizenship, you may find it difficult to settle in a new country.


BVLenci: I found your comments on the starry-eyed newcomers who end up having their dreams dashed to be fascinating!
I would love to read more on this--not about people who sing the praises of their newfound lands, but comments from those who did not find them to be what they had imagined. Any links you might share?

Sassafrass: Do you know any websites geared to people who are considering long-term stays in Spain or Italy? My idea would be to rent for a couple of months, probably in cooler months, and maybe rent 2-3 places for a month each in either of those two countries. I'd love too read through some of those expat forums but don't know how to find them.

Also, I have a related question about how to go about finding a property to rent; think I will begin a new thread on that..

Thanks, all!! Keep dreaming.
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Old Mar 23rd, 2023, 05:40 PM
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A few years back there was a woman on Fodor's who jumped through all the hoops and fulfilled the requirements to move long-term to Italy. She departed with great fanfare, but no sooner had she arrived than she found she missed her grandchildren so much that she cancelled her plans. She ran around to all the sort of sites a first time tourist would visit for two weeks, then came back to the US. Don't think I've noticed a post from her for years.
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Old Mar 23rd, 2023, 05:54 PM
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I remember that thread... Didn't she go to Rome?
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Old Mar 23rd, 2023, 09:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Jean View Post
I remember that thread... Didn't she go to Rome?
I think I remember her. But I also seem to remember a Carolyn from Scotland, maybe, who did end up living in Venice. Wish we could find that first thread about the person who returned.
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Old Mar 23rd, 2023, 11:41 PM
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I suspect that there are a bunch of views that might help

1) everywhere I go in Europe I find a tourist (me)
2) I don't like hordes of people. But in the centre of many highly attractive places I often find towns with only locals. I've found that in the Po valley, in the Mosel, in the Pflaz, in the hills in southern Italy etc etc etc Even in my own town ( a mecca for local tourists) I know when they will be around and just avoid those times of day.
3) I know a bunch of expats across Europe and they all do some very basic things. a) they learn the language, b) they intergrate or... they leave
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Old Mar 24th, 2023, 01:28 AM
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I am a US expat (retired military) living in England, and although there are many differences from living in the US, it very easy to adjust. There are many parts of England little visited by tourists, so with a little effort it is easy to blend in with the locals. After many years in the country as a “member of visiting forces” with a good pension it was easy for me to get a resident’s permit. It’s not so easy for most people to get that status, though.

You hear a lot of stories about the awful weather in England, but I disagree. Where I live it seldom gets very hot (last summer being an exception) and the temperature in winter seldom drops much below freezing. East Anglia where I live, and the southeast of England in general, has the lowest rainfall of the British Isles.
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Old Mar 24th, 2023, 07:59 AM
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Originally Posted by ekscrunchy View Post
I think I remember her. But I also seem to remember a Carolyn from Scotland, maybe, who did end up living in Venice. Wish we could find that first thread about the person who returned.
The people from Scotland are Philip Gwynne Jones and his wife Caroline I believe. They live in Venice still and he has written a non fiction account of moving to and living in Venice called 'To Venice with Love' and several novels set in Venice.
In his bio it says he is Welsh but I seem to remember they moved from Scotland. If you Google him you can find more info, he is also on Twitter, I follow him there.
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Old Mar 24th, 2023, 08:16 AM
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Originally Posted by DionysusofDC View Post
Planning three months to Europe to select a location to purchase a house and land.

Every corner of Europe seems to offer something beautiful and charming.

But where can a person go, and live, that offers most of the things that tourists crave- good weather, nice people, great food, and good internet, relatively affordable (to most who arenít billionaires. Sorry Monaco), and a bit of interesting history to dig into- but without throngs of tourists? Does it exist in Europe?
Please Go to an expat forum We only do vacations here.
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Old Mar 24th, 2023, 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Fra_Diavolo View Post
A few years back there was a woman on Fodor's who jumped through all the hoops and fulfilled the requirements to move long-term to Italy. She departed with great fanfare, but no sooner had she arrived than she found she missed her grandchildren so much that she cancelled her plans. She ran around to all the sort of sites a first time tourist would visit for two weeks, then came back to the US. Don't think I've noticed a post from her for years.
I think that was Sarge56.
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Old Mar 24th, 2023, 08:37 AM
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Yes! Sarge56!
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Old Mar 24th, 2023, 08:51 AM
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Here's the thread in which Sarge56 goes home.

The Adventure Morphs.. Sarge56 leaving Italy

No posts by Sarge56 since July 2021. She started a thread that received several replies, but she never came back. That's worrying...
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Old Mar 24th, 2023, 09:58 PM
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Originally Posted by ekscrunchy View Post
BVLenci: I found your comments on the starry-eyed newcomers who end up having their dreams dashed to be fascinating!
I would love to read more on this--not about people who sing the praises of their newfound lands, but comments from those who did not find them to be what they had imagined. Any links you might share?

Sassafrass: Do you know any websites geared to people who are considering long-term stays in Spain or Italy? My idea would be to rent for a couple of months, probably in cooler months, and maybe rent 2-3 places for a month each in either of those two countries. I'd love too read through some of those expat forums but don't know how to find them.

Also, I have a related question about how to go about finding a property to rent; think I will begin a new thread on that..

Thanks, all!! Keep dreaming.
Any expat forum will be full of whining. In general people upset that things are "different". Everything from the food to how government works to the shops. In general the less a person is willing to adapt the less likely they'll manage.

https://www.expatforum.com/

Has country forums for much of Europe. Less busy then it used to be.

Renting for the full winter is a good idea but if you bounce around you risk get "unlucky" and having good luck in each location. You could have the greatest weather and just miss the bad

In Italy your problem is going to be short rentals are mainly tourist rentals. The standard non tourist rental length is 3 or 4 years.




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Old Mar 25th, 2023, 01:10 AM
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Really, if your endgame is living there permanently, your first thing to check is going to be which countries enable you to get a visa to do so based on your circumstances.
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